At least one person was taken into custody Wednesday night as protesters with the weekly #miccheckwallst march against student debt blocked traffic on Broadway despite police demands that the group return to the sidewalk. Thanks to Geoff for the picture and his notes from the scene.
there was a protest going south on Broadway East. Looks like it started around Broadway E and roy? They were against crippling student loan debt. They were first walking in the middle of the road. Some signs said “student loans kill dreams”. The police told them to get to the sidewalk several times. They continued walking in the road. At the intersection of Mercer and Broadway E, a cop turned in front of the crowd, partially cutting off their path on the road. Police then walked towards the protesters directing them to the sidewalk. A couple refused and were arrested. After the suspects were taken away in police cars, the protest continued south on the sidewalk.
We’re checking to find out more about how many people were taken into custody. #miccheckwallst is an Occupy Seattle offshoot and is active with protests and demonstrations on Capitol Hill and elsewhere in the city.
Following the arrest, the group continued to the East Precinct headquarters at 12th and Pine to demonstrate the SPD actions.
But those protestors are annoying as f***. Who are they influencing marching down my street banging on pots and pans at 8:30 at night?
A lot. Great cause, great people, and non-violent until SPD tackled someone.
GIT OFF MY LAWN
if street noise on Broadway at 8:30pm is concerning, this might not be the right neighborhood to live in.
They went off Broadway and walked down some pretty quiet residential streets. It was a little odd seeing them shout at my unassuming, scrappy apartment building and bang their pots at confused residents but the group was small and the noise was hardly an issue for more than a minute. Anyway, as someone with student debt I am supportive of this.
Nearly 11pm and they are still banging pots and pans at SPD precinct. Jerks.
Still on in force outside East Precinct.
There were almost as many cops as protestors. I saw the whole incident. It was almost 9:00 so there wasn’t much traffic. The protestors were moving along. What does it matter if they walk up the street. Not sure why the cops would react so violently to what was a peaceful protest. Made me kinda mad.
The protesters don’t have the right to block the street and prohibit the rest of the public from using it as intended.
The police did absolutely the right thing.
How dare they exercise their rights to assemble and speak.
Ya you might have been stuck behind those 20 people for 4 or 5 minutes till they marched to the next cross street. So inconvenient
I saw exactly the same thing. There’s also the problem of SPD apparently being ignorant of the laws they’re paid to enforce. This street action was planned well in advance of this evening and it was public knowledge. There are rules of engagement a police force is expected to follow, and once again SPD ignored those and went over the top.
Eh, I saw a protest go down the exact same road and the police were protecting them. I’m guessing the difference was that one group had a permit or something and the other didn’t.
Also, i saw them, I would say there were a lot less cops than protesters. half at least.
The protest didn’t continue to the SPD precinct. It went to Cal Anderson park where it was followed by a picnic. A small group left the park to go to the precinct.
I reject that it is OK for them to block the road for any length of time. Again, SPD was absolutely in the right.
so how intimidating is a guy going to be WITH A DRUM IN HIS HAND? Those cops were WAY over the top tonight with excessive force and intimidation for the sake of intimidation. And you now what? We stayed in the street, so WTF was that all about? Too much testosterone coupled with shitty training = Seattle Police Dept.
If this is what Chief Diaz promotes, he should be the first to go.
When the arrest was made there were 6 cop cars, some unmarked, for maybe 25 protestors. From what I saw it was completely peaceful. Not sure what happened before or after though.
You should be mad. I’m mad as hell. It was totally unprovoked. The police were trying to provoke people into fightin. They ran up to guys real fast, big cops in uniforms like they were going to take somebody down and if dude backed down, the cop would leave him alone. WTF is that about? Are SPD THAT stupid and bored that they have to try to intimidate somebody into fighting them?
Hint: A protest doesn’t work if it doesn’t inconvenience anybody… :)
So you reject marching peacefully down the street as a legitimate way of protesting. Hmm ok.
You have a permit if you have a parade. If you have a protest or a demonstration the point is you don’t HAVE to have a permit becuase you have a constitutional right (remember those?) to gather and protest and peaceably make your demands know and demand redress.
So all you Einsteins who think the police have a right to infringe on your personal liberties and intimidate you or throw you to the ground, possibly breaking a bone, and then arresting you, then you’re probably going to be next, and who’s going to stand up for you?
Student loan rate hike: What you need to know ~ http://money.cnn.com/2012/04/24/pf/college/student_loans/ind July 1st, 2012, the interest rate on student loans is doubling. That matters to me, and I don’t even have kids. I just care about what kind of world we’re leaving to your children.
Then join us next time! :) We’re trying to pressure our govt into forgiving student debt. It’s crushing us all, it’s our biggest debt, and it’s UNFAIR. We’re trying to change unfair rules and practices. Join us.
With pedestrian interference, obstruction, and assault (naturally). Bystanders referred to the brutal nature of the arrest. Evidently she had her face pretty horribly slammed to the pavement. SPD: Whenever they assault someone they charge THEM with assault. Classy!
It’s way past time for Diaz to go. The SPD is in complete disarray and for some weird reason our Mayor has decided to stand or fall with SPD. I think it’s time to get the replace Diaz movement up and running again and maybe those of us who can see WTF is going on can put some more focus on that extremely important area. And I hope those of you siding with SPD escalating a peaceful protest into an ugly and violent incident have at least read the recent FED findings on SPD and its over-the-top and illegal uses of force? Or perhaps know a little bit about the law and can support the opinion that SPD had every right to do what they did tonight? Do tell.
So if your car broke down in the middle of Broadway or if you’re riding your bike on the street and going slower than traffic, using it ‘as intended’, do you think you that you would deserve to be attacked then arrested? My taxes pay for those streets too, and I have a right to exercise my free speech there as long as I’m not endangering anyone.
Facts: The march has been organized by the same group all three weeks. It was clear something was up when they sent patrol cars but no bike police as they had in the past. Bikes vs people or Vehicles vs people sends a very different message. None of the organizers of the march are participating outside the precinct, but I personally support their efforts if not their tactics. The march actually ended at Cal Anderson park where the protesters all shared a meal together.
Thank you.
As someone else who has experienced heavy student debt (and doesn’t want to see it happen to my own children), and has also marched peacefully/legally with this group for the last 2 weeks I ask you WHY you think anyone is a jerk for exercising their right to assemble?
I’d say those who are annoyed by the noise should put in ear plugs… or move to a different neighborhood (away from the college & university nearby). Or better yet, take a really long, hard look at the world around you. Or just keep watching TV and sitting on your couch. Who cares if the government bails out big businesses, let’s them take millions in “bonuses” (for what? accepting bail-out money that came from your taxes, my taxes?) and just hush up. Everything must seem normal to you. Guess what, it’s not.
Annoying? you know what’s annoying? people who don’t pay attentiont to the REAL issues. Have you not paid attention to what is going on in Quebec and other parts of the world where people’s rights are being stripped away? This is a peaceful group, on a peaceful march. Sure there’s a bit of noise…it’s called a Noise Brigade for a reason. And you must be the only one really annoyed by the noise. For the last 2 weeks there has been nothing but shouts and hoots and hollers of solidarity from people all over the neighborhood streets. WAKE UP. You’re being ripped off by your own government. That’s part of the point of making some noise…to wake you up!!!
Once again we see an otherwise-peaceful demonstration at which the police turn violent. McGinn and Diaz have blown it again and again, repeatedly failing to get these gun-toting powderkegs under control, and now the new East Precinct manager, Ron Wilson, is apparently playing the same game.
The people have made it clear that SPD’s pattern of misconduct is unacceptable. What has to happen to get these guys’ attention? Their staff operate above the law. We tell our elected representatives to take control, but they pay some lip service then cower in the face of threats from the police guild.
The thuggery of a fraction of SPD staff endangers not only the people who pay these civil servants’ six-figure salaries, but the rest of the force as well. As respect for police declines and resentment of them increases, policing becomes more dangerous. Those coworkers silently enforcing the blue wall of silence contribute to this endangerment.
I live right where they were marching, and it didn’t bother me in the slightest. It’s part of living a block off Broadway. Maybe Capitol Hill isn’t the right spot for you?
you absolutely do have a right to gather and protest. NOWHERE does it say you have the right to block the street doing so.
Your right to protest ends when you take away someone else’s right to freely express themselves or go about their business.
SPD was well within their right to do what they did last night, period.
I cant stress this enough to parents, please teach your kids not to play in the street.
@ Mandy:
Please explain why student loans are “unfair.” If you take out a loan of any kind, you are legally obligated to pay it back, with interest. Is the interest rate on student loans any higher than other loans? (I think not….they’re probably lower).
You seriously think that your loans should be “forgiven?” Get real. If you don’t want debt, don’t borrow money.
You signed the loans. Student debt, how does it work?
Sorry you didn’t understand ahead of the time you would be expected to pay the loans back.
Screaming to everyone to FIX IT CAUSE I SUCK AT MATH AND PLANNING MY OWN LIFE doesn’t really make sense. Neither does harrassing residential streets. As usual with #occupy you make more enemies than friends
Phil, I agree with you that the SPD over-reacted in this situation, but I do think they had every right/responsibility to get the protestors on the sidewalk, for their own safety as well as motorists.
However, I take issue with your claim that police officers make
“six-figure salaries.” This is perhaps the case with top management, but certainly not for the vast majority of officers. When you include something like that in your otherwise-reasonable criticism, it dilutes what you have to say.
How threatening? 3-4 years ago, I’d have said “not very.” But after #occupy and black bloc violence, that can erupt at any time it seems …. I’ve lived on the Hill a while, when did we turn into the playpen for spoiled children who got cut off from mommy and daddy’s trust fund and maxed out their own credit card then want everyone else to pay for it?
What about my quiet enjoyment (look it up) of my neighborhood home? What do you black bloc punks say about that? Forgot, your right to stomp around like spoiled entitled children who got their toys taken away supercedes my right to walk around without being physically threatened, or have windows in my neighborhood home broken by petulant little sh*ts.
The cause of “wahhh I forgot I might have to pay back what I signed off on” some day.
And the ever popular “we’re smarter than you, so it makes it ok” that is at the core of so many of these protests. ONLY YOU can see that society sucks, ONLY YOU know the solution is “more violence and protesting,” and ONLY YOU can make the decision for everyone else around you and go ahead.
So all those people on Broadway Ave who were just out having a nice evening or shopping or buying food or what have you, none of them has a say
ONLY YOU
Self entitled little sh*ts. Go back to your dumb parents and whine at them they didnt prepare you right for real life.
Meanwhile I support Police defending the neighborhood from low-grade terrorism.
How about this years crop of students move. Students for years have not been the problem. Only now for some reason you all think its better to shove your attitudes about how much life sucks off on everyone else, whether we want it or not. Oh I forgot, precious little snowflakes shouldn’t have student debt. Or shouldn’t have to prepare for real life by majoring in something in demand. Or figure out how not to owe so much by the time you graduate and *gasp* have to actually pay it back. Nope, society is to blame, society and all those awful mean police doing their jobs. Jobs that society actually pays them to do, unlike most of you idiots.
Is that police are out to protect the rest of the neighborhood. #occupy has proven time and again it hides black bloc kids who will get smashy smashy at a moments notice. Perhaps some of these guys were recognized by police as being black bloc.
I know the police have had their issues and some are outright ridiculous like shooting john williams, but when police are doing their jobs protecting a neighborhood from self-styled anarchists, I do not have a problem with it.
Some of you are going to grow older and look back at how you broke other peoples stuff because you were frustrated and angry your own life choices haven’t worked out like you thought, and you are going to feel silly or even ashamed. But this won’t happen for years from now, probably.
Right now, trust me, you look like idiots. Sorry you took on more debt than you can handle. Why is this society’s fault, again? Oh right, everyone owes you a nice high paying job the minute you leave college with no fallback plan and no real plan at all other than “then magic happens” .. like Underwear Gnomes, step 3, profit.
Was Step 2 always going to be “break other peoples shit and clog traffic and annoy everyone else because we suck?”
Must suck to know the cops are earning more than you are doing their job denying you your rights to break things in protest over your own poor life planning skills.
uh, so your Stafford loans are back to 6.8% after a few years at 3.4% . Most of us out in the working world paid back loans at 6.8% or higher. You’re protesting a removal of a nice perk that only existed for 4 years or so?
I cannot stress this enough, if all it takes is a few percentage points on a loan to flip you out, you are vastly out of touch with reality. Not your own sheltered reality, but the real actual real world outside academia where if you sign up for a loan you must pay it back, and interest rates can change, and values for things like property and taxes can rise and fall on a whim, or some random event half way around the world.
It doesn’t make it right sometimes, but it is part of real life, and has been for as long as there’s been an economy.
Read the fine print and don’t sign the loan if you think its unfair.
But screaming in public how unfair it is? You look like dbags. Sorry, you don’t like that and will lump me in with the cops now, but I think you guys just suck at life and want everyone else to solve it for you.
Seriously I was right there and watched the whole thing while going to get dinner. If you people think that a few people walking peacefully down the street, exercising their constitutional right to protest deserve to get violently tackled to the ground and arrested, well that’s pretty sad. In your world practically every protest I’ve ever seen or heard of would be illegal. Get a grip. There was a parent and younger child walking with those folks for Christ sake. Maybe you think they should have been tackled to the ground with a knee on their neck? Wow. Just wow. Can’t believe some of the comments here.
go away,
Why are you talking about property damage? Who broke other people’s stuff?
Oh wait, since some people did some things at a thing almost two months that justifies police violence against people at an event that isn’t even about the same thing?
Everyone can agree or disagree with what these folks were protesting about. But to say that because you disagree with the issue it’s ok for police to tackle one of these folks to the ground and put a knee to their neck, that’s pretty low. People have a right to peacefully protest. This situation wasn’t violent in any way. They were walking down
the street making a little noise. If you’re really so damn offended by a little noise then it was probably better to have them walk by quickly on the street rather than all squeeze onto a tiny sidewalk banging pots pans and drums.
The problem is we who are not protesting never know when one of the protests turns violent. It might be obvious to you, but it isnt obvious to those of us not intimately involved.
I did not used to fear protesters. I do now. That is entirely on #occupy. How many of you hid black bloc or were black bloc two months ago? How many of you will be again?
I see protesters and I can’t tell the difference between “peaceful” and “about to start smashing everything in sight.” You all look the same, your message is the same, your tactics and attitude seem about the same. Some of you break things, all of you seem to think its everyone else’s fault that you owe money on your loan.
Here is some footage I got:
6.8% now? That’s a better rate than you can get for any other type of loan. What are you paying on your VISA now, 12%? Maybe if we marched around the street with noisemakers we could get VISA to lower it.
Or maybe we should be marching to get schools to lower their tuition rates. Schools are now merely degree mills for the children of the rich, and a lot of people with raw talent are being denied the chance to step up and contribute to our society because they can’t afford to go to college. That would be a cause I might bang a can to support, but merely marching to protest student loan interest rates seems petulant.
You realize that that’s not the only way it could work, right? You know that the purpose of protests is to try to change something?
The fact that it’s a loan and you should pay it back isn’t the real issue. The real issue is that education should not be a for profit business, it’s bad for society. By monetizing education, we are encouraging a mostly uneducated population. We’re pushing ourselves towards a dark age, not a golden one. An educated society is good for everyone. While a stupid population may get certain teabaggers (re)elected, it’s not sustainable for the nation. It’s also an enforced monopoly, where the government profits off anyone that’s not coming from a wealthy enough background where their parents can pay for college out of their pockets/savings. Having parents that saved for your college is a luxury, education should not be.
Coincidentally, my student loan rate is about twice the rate of my mortgage and auto loan. I do pay them all on-time, before you make assumptions.
Oh, I don’t know, maybe the “jerks” are the people who, after the first person they attempted to arrest got pulled away by the crowd (or de-arrested), snatched the closest person they could and threw her face into the concrete after people were already getting on the sidewalk (even if not “all that rapidly”).
But yeah, keep complaining about people banging pots and pans on a block that already has a fire station, a police station, and the Cuff. Of course it’s the people expressing anger at the violent arrest of their friend who are the jerks, and not the cops who abuse someone for leaving a street too slowly.
Embrace authoritarianism, y’all.
“Again, SPD was absolutely in the right.”
…in bashing people the concrete for slowing down traffic.
Richard, you’re an authoritarian prick.
taco:
What exactly do you want changed? You want the loans to be forgiven? Because some people do not pay they shouldn’t have to? Seems like a bad deal for the lenders.
Thanks for sharing. Police actions looked reasonable to me.
I see a Seattle police officer and I can’t tell the difference between “peacekeeper” and “about to pull somebody off the sidewalk and throw her face down in the street.” They dress in black from head to toe, with only tiny 1/4″ print on their front pocket to identify them. When they violate the law — commit murder, even — we grant them immunity. They operate in an anonymous block and refuse to condemn those among them who engage in misconduct.
Their right to protest don’t supersede my right to drive down broadway.
Kudos to SPD to allow them to continue to protest on the public sidewalk where they weren’t a danger to themselves or automobiles.
The two that were tackled were giving plenty of opportunity to move.
I don’t know…I had to take out a student loan for graduate school. I did so knowing that I would owe when I got out. It was a choice. So, these “kids” don’t want to take responsibility for the choice they made? I have a nephew in his second year in college. While we help out a little, instead of loans he’s got a job to help him pay tuition/living expenses/etc.
…from my window. I live in an SHA building about a block off of Broadway and watched the whole thing.
These protestors are a bunch of self-centered, ignorant losers. Many of them were deliberately disobeying laws in order to prod the police into “attacking” them. Then they filmed themselves (yippee) and their pals getting arrested. How pathetic. The police were totally in the right.
I also have student loan debt. Marching up and down Broadway isn’t “creating awareness” or any other such bullshit. It’s just pointing out once again what complete jackass protesters we have in this town.
GO: Black bloc is a tactic, not part of people’s identities.
Ha! Everybody seems to want a free ride these days and feels so special. Suck it up and deal with your choices people. Take one class a quarter if that’s all you can afford.
Thanks for sharing. I’ve seen more peaceful protests. Considering the incitement from the protesters, the officers did a nice job of keeping cool. I know I would have had a hard time not slapping the shit out of the guy who kept yelling “fucking pigs”. Honestly.
My sympathies to the kids of this generation for the unearthly amounts they must pay for education. I still recall paying $40 for tuition at the local community college, & $250 per quarter when I transferred to the UofW in ’64. Basement rooms went for $35 per month…. My summer jobs paid for everything.
Well, I’ved lived on Capitol Hill since 1974. Does that matter? I’m also “older”, don’t have any outstanding student loans, don’t have any children of my own to worry about, and once again I’m just concerned about the world we’re leaving for YOUR CHILDREN.
SMC 12A.12.015 A.4 specifically exempts First Amendment expression from the definition of Pedestrian Interference. Further, if a pedestrian is walking (not standing) in the street, they are not blocking passage by a vehicle.
Another trumped up charge that will be dismissed. I’d like to see suit brought for false charges and imprisonment…
http://clerk.ci.seattle.wa.us/~scripts/nph-brs.exe?d=CODE&s1
The thug at 3:02 is just itching to pepper spray someone…
The reason that student debt is so vile is that there is no possibility of breaching the covenant of the loan, if federally subsidized. The risk of complete default off the table means that student loans are handed out like penny candy to people that will undoubtedly have trouble repaying them, especially right now.
If you’re saying that not everyone should go to college, then you’re really ignorant of basic requirements for entry level jobs. It’s also entrenching those that already have the means to higher education.
If you’re saying that only degrees in sciences should get student loans, you’re looking at university education primarily as job training, in which case we could do so much better in straight up job training for far less cost especially with sciences.
The rise in tuition is partially because of the availability of credit. In a market where there are limited spots and cost is not a huge factor on entrance because of free flowing loans, the price will rise until it becomes a barrier to entry for a large portion of applicants or until legislative remedy.
Why do you think universities are jacking up their out of state admittance rates? There is more money in it for the university and there is little risk to the creditor in providing that money.
Think about other forms of debt too. With other forms of non collateralized debt like credit cards, you can have them discharged through bankruptcy. Why are student loans different? The biggest reason the provision on making student loan debt non dischargable was implemented was because of boogeyman story about lawyers and doctors declaring bankruptcy to avoid repaying their loans. In actuality, the default rate prior to the legislation for those professions was much lower than the general population of student. There is the idea that since you can’t recoup the benefit received in the event of default you must make default impossible.
I fundamentally disagree with that position. Education is a net benefit to society. There is no societal benefit in forcing people to pay back money they borrowed that works towards improving society as a whole. The only thing that it satisfies is the sense of fairness which in my estimation is hardly worth the cost imposed on millions across the nation in reduced spending power. the mentality that “I had to do this, so should you” has never been a good reason to maintain a status quo, ever.
I heard a racket coming down the street and rushed to my front door to guard against some hooded anarchist breaking my windows and was pissed to see no police presence. However, it quickly became apparent that on this night it wasn’t that unruly a crowd, and I was relieved to be able to watch and listen calmly.
“Education is a Right” is the mantra that this group was chanting, which to me didn’t resonate. Spiraling costs for higher education seems to be one of our many crises, so I’m open to the conversation on that subject. Higher education is good (at least in limited doses), and I believe it should be one of the functions of government to develop such opportunities. But on what basis can higher Ed be considered a right? I haven’t heard any rational argument along those lines to date. If they’re right then meals and housing and at least decent wine should be a right too, and I’m going to wait for the government to deliver.
Why should the government protect lenders from risk? It’s not like debtors are the only party responsible for loans and loan defaults. We saw this with the housing bubble too where a contingent of people thought “Oh, the debtor just needs to pay up, they agreed to” and it’s such a gross oversimplification and ignorant understanding of loans.
I was right up close when the cops took that girl. They pulled their cars into the march, as it turned onto Broadway. Several officers from the Gang Unit jumped out and tried to grab one of the guys at the front of the march. His friends also grabbed him and pulled him back. I think his feet actually left the ground during the tug of war. I was really impressed at how fast his friends were able to rescue him. Another cop charged onto the sidewalk and snatched a girl – pulling her off the sidewalk into the street, slamming her face into the asphalt and piling on her back. I heard she’s been charged with Pedestrian Interference, Obstruction, and Assault. I’d be surprised if any of those charges see the inside of a courtroom.
So many people think this is about individual decisions, and wanting somebody to clean after bad choices. I get that it’s easier and simpler to think that.
But whining about imaginary trust fund kids from the comfort of your Capitol Hill apartment is… kind of like calling the kettle bourgeois.
Debt isn’t about your individual choice to sign or not sign a loan. I’m lucky. I went to a public school in my home state, and my parents are comfortably middle-class enough that they could pay for it. So I graduated with a small amount of debt that I paid off in a couple years using my Americorps education awards. But many of my friends – especially those who grew up poor and working class – have tens of thousands of dollars in debt. Their freedom is limited by having to pay off the interest on those loans. Their job and life choices are shackled to profit-making, for years to come. You can complain about people wanting a free ride (maybe because you don’t understand the things you’re complaining about) but the federal government is making billions off the interest on student loans, and private lenders are making more. So who’s really getting the free ride here?
Really? The police tackles someone on the sidewalk out on to the street? That’s reasonable?
to:Bad Deal For Lenders
Did I say the government should bail out student loan holders? What are you suggesting should happen? If you’re saying banks should just eat the loans then the interest rates are going to go up as more people start to default. You’re putting banks in the weird position of financing something very expensive that they can’t repo and you might not pay up for. This isn’t really something the banks do for fun, they loan you money for profit.
I do agree the cost of education is getting out of control. State schools at least, should be fairly cheap or free. If you went to an expensive private school I have less sympathy for your loan issues.
just an FYI: the right to protest supersedes any right to drive down the road or anything else. the constitution is the highest law in the land and protesting is not supposed to be convenient, it’s supposed to make you think, get your attention. there are no “free speech areas” because the entire country is a free speech area.
However, it does appear that last week the SPD allowed marchers to proceed peacefully down the center of Broadway with bike escorts. Then, tonight, police cars moved in and attempted to arrest one person starting a melee. They eventually arrested a different protester (not the original one).
It seems clear from the video that the police’s decision to first rush one marcher (with the bullhorn) and then begin to make the first arrest rather than allow the march to proceed peacefully instigated the broader disruption.
http://envisionseattle.org/2012/06/seattle-police-department
>Think about other forms of debt too. With other forms of non collateralized debt like credit cards, you can have them discharged through bankruptcy. Why are student loans different?
How else are student loans going to work? You are asking banks to loan out $80k-$160k+ for education to people with no credit history. That’s more than a pretty nice car, and with a car they can actually Repo if you don’t pay. With credit cards there is a possibility of default, and I think the interest rates are adjusted accordingly. Also if you want a high limit card(like $100k) you must have a pretty decent credit score. So I don’t think it’s a good to compare cc debt and student loans.
If it’s suddenly possible to forgive student loans, prepare for banks to get a lot more tight fisted with loans. Get ready for loans to be refused to people based on GPA and job prospects. This itself will become a new barrier to entry to education.
Yup.
Oh, and thank you (apologies for posting two comments in a row).
Endless amounts of information is available to essentially everyone for free via public libraries and the internet. Top universities are making courses available for free online. Social media makes it simple to find others to debate with and learn from. You don’t need to pay to go to college to get an education… just a degree. And if one chooses to acquire a degree, they should understand that it’s a financial transaction… you pay for the sheepskin, not the education.
@ c doom:
“How threatening? 3-4 years ago, I’d have said “not very.” But after #occupy and black bloc violence, that can erupt at any time it seems …. I’ve lived on the Hill a while, when did we turn into the playpen for spoiled children who got cut off from mommy and daddy’s trust fund and maxed out their own credit card then want everyone else to pay for it?”
I want to address basically everything you have stated, assumed, and said in the above quoted paragraph. Occupy and black bloc violence? Well, for one, I’ve seen none of that. I have seen people using the black bloc tactic cause targeted property destruction – which is not violence. Occupy has consistently been brutalized by the police force, both here in Seattle and worldwide.
But more importantly, I want to address the second part of your statement – the assertion that we are spoiled children who got cut off from our parents trust fund. That is just false. That is untrue, and that is offensive. I am not a child, I am in my late 20’s. I used to have my own business. I used to be a general contractor building houses, until the housing market crashed and I lost my business, house, and had to sell my truck. So fuck you. I grew up with nothing, and made my way in the world after graduating high school. I started a successful and well-liked business, had great employees who I treated the same way I would treat myself, and I lost that to the banks and our government’s idiocy. Now, having had that happen, I decided to return to school to get a college degree. I have no loans, preferring to do what my grandfather taught me and never pay for anything I don’t have the cash in my pocket to pay for. A lot of students don’t have that luxury, and a lot of student’s don’t have the life or work experience I have (you know, since I’m coming into the college scene late in the game, as it were). I don’t want everyone else to pay for anything. I don’t think that we, as students, are treated well. I don’t think we are considered the resource that we are – the future of this fucking shitstorm of a nation. Students are the future – and treating us like criminals is the wrong way to go about…well, anything. You see, unlike you who can obviously afford to live on Capitol Hill – good on ya, that shit is expensive – and most likely has a credit card, I don’t have that luxury.
I’ve never had a credit card. I’ve never had a student loan. But I do have to pay ridiculously for an education that is, in many ways, the equivalent of what a high-school diploma was 20 years ago insofar as the job market is concerned. I will graduate with a receipt – err, I mean diploma – and go on to do fine, I am quite sure. But I really fucking resent your assertion that we are spoiled kids, or that we have parents with trust funds.
Where do you get off making such assumptions? It’s blatantly untrue and offensive to those of us who have actually worked for a living, had a trade, and are being forced back into the education system by our banking-system fucked economy. It is offensive to those students who are working two-jobs to afford to survive while going to community college full-time. It is offensive to those students who, because of their family backgrounds, have to take out loans in order to attend college… or you know, be homeless.
So in summary: just fuck off. Don’t talk about what you don’t know.
I’d imagine a lot of those protestors are marching on behalf of people who aren’t in college yet. They’re trying to change the system, not just complain about not being able to pay their loans.
Tuition is rising like crazy and lenders are happy to sell bigger and bigger loans to 18-year-old kids. My generation should be buying houses, having kids, and generally stimulating the economy, but since we’re saddled with so much debt, a lot of us are renting apartments or moving back in with parents. This lack of spending hurts all of us. And sure, a lot of us made bad decisions, but so did members of previous generations. The difference now is that the penalties associated with those bad decisions are higher than they’ve ever been.
I’d like to think I made some good decisions – I went to a very cheap public school, and after the bubble burst I decided to not get my PhD since I probably wouldn’t get a good return on that investment. But I still have plenty of debt from my master’s degree. Not so much that I won’t be able to pay it off, but enough that I’m aware that school is f’ing expensive.
We like to think of 18-year-olds as adults, but I think generally they just don’t have the life experience to fully understand what sort of debt they’re going to rack up, and how that debt will affect them after they graduate. They assume their life’s trajectory will be somewhat like those of their parents, but this generation has been cobbled by rising tuition costs. On the other hand, students should make wise decisions, and the adults around them should be encouraging them to be smart about their debt. They should be encouraged to apply for scholarships, apply to cheap schools, have a plan rather than going “undeclared” (or wait until they know what they’d like to do), etc.
I agree with the protestors. Student debt is a real problem and is getting worse. They are right to be upset; I am glad they are walking in the street to discuss their displeasure. I don’t care about their particular stories necessarily. Who disagrees that student debt is a bubble that is hurting this country? If so, discuss that.
Calhoun wrote, “I take issue with your claim that police officers make `six-figure salaries.’ This is perhaps the case with top management, but certainly not for the vast majority of officers.” In 2009, about 1100 SPD employees were paid less than $100,000, and about 700 of them were paid more than $100,000. So, three years ago, roughly 40% of them were making six figures. These numbers were compiled from public records my friend requested and received. I’m looking at a spreadsheet with each employee’s gross pay.
Worth reading:
http://microsofttaxdodge.com/2012/04/dummies-guide-to-micros
Between 1997 – 2011, the company used its Nevada office to avoid $1.51 billion in Washington state taxes, interest and penalties. If you include impacts from the company’s lobbying and calculate its savings at the original 1.5% rate, it’s saved $4.37 billion.
Since 2008, Washington State has cut $4 billion from K-12 and Higher Education. We rank 31st in K-12 spending. 18% of University of Washington freshman are now foreigners (because they pay more) up from 2% six years ago. We rank 47th nationally in 18-24 yo college enrollment and 48th in K-12 class size.
Few Seattle residents know about this because The Seattle Times has never reported this story. … In January, The Seattle Times did publish an editorial by Microsoft’s Brad Smith, one of its designated who oversees the companyβs Nevada corporations,ββ¦it’s [Washington] state’s paramount duty to provide for the public education of all children. Unfortunately, steady declines in public resources now threaten our ability to live up to that commitment.β He supports Governor Gregoireβs call for to increase the stateβs sales tax, already the most regressive in the country.
Coincidence that this started just a block or two from Cornish? I think not.
So that $100k you spent to get a degree in dance or theatre isn’t paying off? Haven’t gotten hired yet? Dreams dashed? Now you want out? ha!
FYI – There’s a construction boom going on in downtown Seattle for the next few years. Plenty of jobs there. Hanging drywall, pouring concrete, even security. Decent money to be made as well and it doesn’t require any sort of eduction past high school. May want to check it out.
Seriously. Pay your bills.
The issue behind forgiving student debt is to forgive it to those that honestly can’t afford to pay it back, and those that it is destroying the lives of. I do have student debt and my debt is manageable and I am paying it off little by little. I am one of the few that can find ways to deal with it. There are many who cannot. There are no protections against debt going out of control and turning into a serious problem. Take for instance when you retire, they will take away your social security to pay old student debts. Is that fair? NO! There have been instances of police raids due to student debt. Is that legal? NO! Interest rates can make sure that you are never out of debt even if the original balance was paid off. Sound logical? Not at all, especially if you are “college educated”. Top earners can’t spend money to put money into the economy thanks to it going to special interests like banks and lenders. And they sure as hell are going to put it in either. The student loan forgiveness will work for those that truly need it, those that were made empty promises by banks that make student loans and don’t care about the outcome. Student loan forgiveness for those that truly need it will also ensure that the student loan bubble will not be another issue crashing our economy. Remember, while yes students should take this into consideration, banks give out loans like candy with little to no regard of who they are giving it to. High grades, low grades, dropouts trying again; they don’t care, they just keep putting money out they don’t have to give and put more and more people into unending debt.
Student loan forgiven isn’t going to be a hand out it is a solution to prevent financial abuse by banks and corporations.
On a more personal note, I noticed that many of you that are vehemently against student loan forgiveness don’t actually seem to care about what happens to anyone but yourselves. Crying about your tax dollars and such. Well your tax dollars are going to a hell of a lot worse things than making sure that those that cared about getting an education can help our country. For all of you all I can say is that in Christianity loaning money is against the word of the lord. If you took the time to read your holy book you would know this. And what ever happened to love thy neighbor? Your all going to hell! Have a good time. For the rest of you that could care less about helping out or signing a petition that could help thousands if not millions of students in the US, please, consume feces and cease to metabolize.
Actually, this article is incorrect. The march started at Seattle Central Community College. To my knowledge there were no Cornish students involved, but I could be wrong – I don’t know everyone.
Your condescending tone is rather obnoxious and unwarranted. Also, as the above comment said, this march didn’t start at Cornish.
I went to a school that I could afford with a profession that would allow me to enjoy a life.
Sorry, but I’m not going to subsidize the fools that didn’t have the foresight to think of life post schooling.
Enjoy your $900/month student loans for the next 30 years!
Oh really? I went to an art school, thanks, paid off my relatively small student loans, and have a good job in technical theater. Next time you pay to go to a show and can actually see the band on stage, you can thank those Cornish students that “wasted” their lives.
Admittedly, I didn’t go to Cornish. I went to the only state run conservatory in the country. I got a world class education for a much lower price. I was able to do that thanks to exactly the sort of activist types that some folks are bashing on. They lobbied, protested, and in the end won a campus for themselves back in the 70’s.
These folks aren’t even asking for that much. They’re upset that public institutions are being defunded. That cost is being transferred to students and their families at increasing high interest rates. More and more student debt is privatized.
And at the same time, job opportunities are harder and harder to come by. This is not well reflected in the unemployment numbers as the government keeps redefining people to avoid reporting them. Been out of work too long? You’re no longer counted as unemployed. Have a job that only gives you 10 hrs a week? Your underemployment does not count either. Taking a community college class? Now you’re a student and don’t count. People aren’t having trouble paying back their loans because they’re spoilt or don’t want to. They’re having trouble because a “jobless recovery” is a depression.
But hey, if you’ve personally managed to keep your head above water, that’s what counts, right? You’re a island, sufficient unto yourself. It doesn’t matter what happens to those kids, or your neighbor, or the guy that sells you your coffee. And when you start seeing boarded up homes on your block, when street crime rises, when your property values continue to fall, bus service to your neighborhood gets cut, you realize just how much it’s starting to cost to keep your car up (especially after that smashed window your insurance didn’t cover, street crime rising, ya know), your parents lose their house (but hey, you’re a island, they’re not moving in with you!), your medical insurance won’t cover a major charge, and your employer announces 1/3 of the jobs in your office are being outsourced . . . I’m sure you’ll stand up and take responsibility for everything happening to you in the same way you want these students to take responsibility for the economy, defunding of public education, for-profit loan system, and rising educational requirements to obtain employment.
fuckin hippies
…and I’m not talking about repayment. Student loans got me through school and into a good professional career.
I was sitting in Deluxe when these sad folk tromped by. My thoughts? Maybe you shouldn’t have majored in medieval literature or graphic design (no disrespect meant to successful folks in those fields). It might not be very democratic, but without somebody paying your way, going to school has to be treated as an investment. You have to consider its costs and benefits before doing so.
tldr: pick your major wisely if you’re paying your own way through school.
I was just informed that I misread that spreadsheet. About 40% of SPD staff who are not represented by the Seattle Police Officers Guild (SPOG) made more than $100,000 in 2009. Among those who are represented by SPOG (i.e., the regular cops), about 53% made more than $100,000 in 2009.
So Bob, you are correct that it is not the vast majority of our Seattle police making six-figure salaries. However, even three years ago, we paid *most* of our police six-figure salaries.
” whatever you do is wrong.—you’re on the street, then get on the sidewalk! You’re on the sidewalk, we’ll throw you in the street and arrest you.” As usual the police reaffirm their role of protecting property ( this time the property of the banks in the form of debt we “owe” them). Order is far more important than free expression—in fact free expression must be suppressed to protect “order”. Smaller scale , slightly different tactics , but same goal as the repression in Quebec.
The police serve the 1% and always will until we abolish the rule of the 1%!
“But hey, if you’ve personally managed to keep your head above water, that’s what counts, right?”
I hate to say it, but pretty much.
Would I have rather have attended school for the chance to be a photographer that would travel internationally instead of going into accounting? Absolutely I would have.
Was I willing to take the risk in accumulating student debt in order to chase that dream? Absolutely not.
I took the safe and logical choice. These protestors obviously took a roll of the dice and it didn’t work out for them. Tough luck.
Looks like a lot of those people are learning a very important life lesson – be responsible for yourself. Reality is hard, isn’t it?
Welcome to the real world!
Yawn… I’m bored of that holier-than-thou, “You picked the wrong major!!!11!1 Hahahah you deserve to fail!!1!” argument, as well as the assumption that people who are jobless must have majored in the arts. College is not job training; its purpose is to help students develop useful skills/knowledge and learn how to be creative enough to apply those skills to any situation. If the “wrong major” argument had any weight, every single person who majored in the arts would be jobless and every single person who majored in sciences or finance would have a job. In my experience that’s just not the case. Getting a job these days is easiest if you’re motivated, savvy, and lucky – regardless of your area of study.
If you’re talking doctorates in obscure fields, that’s a different story…
I work a full-time job so that I can pay for my education without having to borrow money. It’s a lot harder, but I want a liberal arts degree and I know that it won’t earn me enough to cover the cost of a loan.
Seems like just a little bit of critical thought would have solved this problem.
I don’t like the finance system for education in this country, but that doesn’t mean that I am going to support a gigantic bail out to people who were too lazy or stupid to avoid a very obvious trap.
These people are young enough that they can recover on their own and chalk this up to a lesson learned. If we bail them out then you rob them of what is apparently the only thing that they might have learned in college: You are responsible for your own choices.
For the record, a protestors right to assemble DOES NOT trump anyone elses rights. It is a protected form of speech, but it extends only as far as it infringes on the rights of others.
Yeah, let’s let them learn their lesson just like we taught JP Morgan Chase, Bank of America, and General Motors.
A liberal arts degree is pretty easy to get, and for not very much money. I don’t think you’ve given much thought to things like medical school.
If you fear coming to protests due to violence you should advocate getting rid of police. If you fear “black bloc” tactics because you are worried about the poor lives of insured windows in corporate stores and banks then you’re just plain silly.
Thanks for that awesome tidbit!