Neighbor trulys thinks she has identified the most dangerous intersection on the Hill — and she’d like to see the city do something about it :
In my experience, the corner of 11th and Thomas is a horrible magnet for accidents on the Hill. The view is obscured going East on Thomas, and also obscured going North on 11th. I usually creep forward going either direction in case someone can’t see me.
Recently though, I was in a contretemps at this corner. The person with whom I bended fenders was not creeping, not was she familiar with the Hill. Upon getting out of our cars, we came to the friendly conclusion that it was neither of our faults, but rather the omission of a Stop sign on either corner. As we surveyed our vehicles lightly dented fenders, not one, but about four different people walking by remarked that this happened all the time and how awful it was. We too felt it was awful, and hearing this we decided to try to do something to stop the madness – so, we are appealing to Hill residents.
Trulys is asking for others to add their comments to the CHS forum post so she can take her case to SDOT for an effort to make the intersection safer. Whether or not you agree that this intersection should be first on the list for making street fixes on the Hill, the effort takes some of the discussions we had earlier in the year about how to fix Capitol Hill trouble spots that never really went anywhere. We’ll check in with trulys to see if this push gets anywhere. Maybe next somebody — somebody like you — will help the city take a solid look at 12th Ave’s pedestrian crosssings.
I’m taking the issue up with SDOT – will let you know their response on when we can expect improvements.
The corner of 11th and E. Thomas IS very dangerous. I live there! People drive very fast coming from 12th or Broadway and now it’s even worse with the construction on E John so people are side-stepping that street and using E. Thomas. I manage the apartment building on the corner of Federal and E. Thomas and can attest that something needs to be done. It’s impossible to see when driving on 11th toward Thomas and needing to turn left onto Thomas. You DO have to inch out because usually there is some big car parked on the corner (almost illegally) making it difficult to see oncoming traffic.
the car on the right has the right of way
i also live in the building on federal & thomas (hi S.!) and totally agree. crossing thomas from south to north on foot at night is crummy!
If only the average person understood this concept.
I think unmarked intersections are dangerous to begin with, but this one is specially bad. Is the idea that people will drive more cautiously without STOP or YIELD signs?
It’s all well and good to understand that, but if you can’t see the car to your right due to hills, cars, or foliage then accidents are still going to occur.
because if you’re on 11th you can’t see if anybody is coming from the left. That means they can’t see you. Honestly, the biggest problem is the combination of that overgrown shrub with cars parking illegally.
Cutting down the shrubs and preventing illegal parking would open up the view so a car heading uphill on Thomas could see if there was somebody coming on 11th and yield accordingly.
I don’t know about the most dangerous… but it is pretty bad. I used to bike through this intersection twice a day, and no matter how careful I was I always felt like I could get hit there by a car coming up Thomas.
The intersection is very unsafe, particularly with how fast people drive up Thomas. I’ve had several close calls at that intersection while on foot and in my car.
I wonder. Freeing up the view may just make people drive faster because they perceive less danger. Lots of research on this kind of behavior. Maybe just request a stop sign from SDOT? I live on 13th by Seattle U and witnessed the same problem of people speeding on my street to avoid 12th. The city installed a stop sign at my corner and, voila, no more dangerous intersection. I just wish my portion of 13th wasn’t as wide and had no views of oncoming streets, such as your intersection.
What Wes said. And I would add that unusually wide-cut curbs that allow for sweeping turns onto 11th are big part of the problem. The wide turning radius allows drivers to take the turn fast, so pushing out the sidewalk would help.
I live in one of the buildings pictured and I work from home most days. I don’t know how many accidents I see and/or hear in a given week, but I know the numbers are well above average. Most incidents are near misses, but there are several accidents a week.
There needs to be more clearance on foliage, we could stand to use a 30-foot from intersection parking rule and people could drive as though there are other people on the road. (Hate to say it, but a lot of these accidents are earned.)
Looks like another spot on the hill where keeping cars from parking close to the intersection would improve visibility. Cars, bikers and pedestrians all benefit from getting a better look at what’s coming. I know this would reduce the number of available spots on the street, but the benefits seem very high.
I wonder how much it would cost to repaint the curbs near intersections (and in the 30-feet-from-stop-signs zone) in some kind of garish color? This would make it easier for drivers to tell where it was OK to park; the paint on most of Capitol Hill’s curbs is beyond faded. Especially the red — for a color-blind person like me, it has to be nice and solid for me to see it.
For what it’s it worth, I knew from the title of this post that you were talking about this intersection: it’s that bad.
I live on that corner and it’s a big problem. People drive down Thomas like it was an arterial, folks turning onto Thomas have blind spots … I don’t know how I’ve managed to avoid a collision, but have been very close many times.
Roy & Belmont is a bad one too. People are always flying down the little hump hills like they’re in some Steve McQueen movie. Those going around the corner headed uphill almost always cut over the line…weird, because it was painted in 1989. The poor people at the other two streets just have to sit there and hope for the best on a left hand turn.
I live on this corner and have noticed how dangerous it is, especially turning from northbound 11th onto Thomas. It’s awful to cross on foot as well. I hear squealing tires daily. I checked it out today, and to be fair, I think that whole row of planting along the south side of Thomas between Federal and 11th needs to be cut back to city requirements. I don’t remember it being this bad before those bushes were there.
Trulys’s first step should be to call the homeowner’s association for those condos. If they refuse to cut those bushes back, get the city involved. If trimming the bushes doesn’t improve visibility, then pester the transportation department to make it a controlled intersection.
If people are driving too fast in that area, the city should consider adding parking on the north side of Thomas. Small roads encourage drivers to be more cautious (usually). I’ve asked for traffic modifications from the city before. You can expect a very detailed response that will cite traffic statistics for the past 10 years. Who knows, maybe there is a lot of documented accidents there. Maybe it’s just a scary intersection.
I agree- its a terrible blindspot from any direction!
There are intersections all over Capitol Hill rendered temporarily dangerous because someone illegally parks their car too close to the corner and blocks the sight lines. It seems I’m always having to inch out slowly craning my neck forward, and even then I’ve had some near misses.
If the city wants to make money from parking, how about more aggressively ticketing cars illegally parked too close to the corner?
I live on 11th Ave E, and I regularly commute and walk through this intersection. I’ve had several “near-misses”, but thankfully no accident. It is a strange intersection that needs to be fixed by the city. Cars fly up and down Thomas, and it seems only a matter of time that there will be a fatal accident, either car-car or (more likely) car-pedestrian.
you have to be able to see that there’s a car on your right first…
this is a very dangerous intersection. at the very least, parking should be pushed back from the southwest corner (in front of the condos) to improve visibility. adding a stop sign would probably be wise, too, or at least ‘yield’ signs for traffic traveling on thomas.
I have lived a short ways from this intersection for 30 years…so I am very familiar with it, and agree that it is moderately unsafe. Unfortunately, SDOT tends to not take any action unless there is a history of accidents at a location, and as far as I know this has not been the case here. “Near-misses” do not count as they are not on SDOT’s radar screen.
It’s quite obvious that the main problem is the combination of parked cars and also shrubbery at the SW corner of this intersection..these things totally block visibility for motorists traveling east on E Thomas and north on 11th. A fairly easy solution, then, would be to disallow any parking for the 2 spaces south and the 2 spaces west of the corner, and also remove the shrubbery at those same places (it’s not necessary to cut down all the shrubbery between 11th and Federal, as someone else suggested). An additional possibility that would help is to install a traffic circle…that would slow down the speeders on E Thomas.
In order for anything to happen, a formal complaint needs to be made to SDOT, so they can take a look and make recommendations. Truly, will you be doing this? I would be glad to help in any way that I can. Let’s together make this a safer intersection!
It’s not a standard 4way intersection – it’s a pair of T’s close by one another…
I think this intersection needs a bike box.
Any chance the city could make this an all-way stop? It’s hella dangerous.
sdot sent me a great response about belmont and roy that i wanted to share.
“Thank you for writing regarding the intersection of East Roy Street and Belmont Avenue East. You ask if the city could create a four-way stop with crosswalks at the intersection. The Seattle Department of Transportation (SDOT) has performed a review of this intersection.
This is a complex intersection because of the sloped terrain, but sight distance at this intersection is adequate. SDOT looked at the reported collision history from 2003 to 2010. Thankfully, there have been none since 2006 and very few prior. No collisions involved southbound traffic from Boylston Avenue East turning onto East Roy Street. There were also no instances of rear-end collisions at either intersection.
A marked crosswalk, in and of itself, does not necessarily improve pedestrian safety. Instead, marking a crosswalk indicates a preferred crossing location. A “preferred” location is one that is safer for pedestrians to cross when compared to other possible crossing locations. Because the intersection of East Roy Street and Belmont Avenue East is curved and sloped, it is not a “preferred” location for a pedestrian crosswalk. There is a marked crosswalk on East Roy Street approximately 190′ east of Belmont Avenue East at Boylston Avenue East (south leg). This location is the “preferred” crossing.
SDOT follows the national standards presented in the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD) for the review and installation of all-way stops. The MUTCD has two standards for installation of all-way stops. One is based on safety and the intersection’s collision history. If the intersection has five or more reported collisions per year, the first standard is met. East Roy Street and Belmont Avenue East does not meet this standard. The second standard is based on high volumes and delay created by these volumes, in this case, requiring that one street of the intersection average at least 300 vehicles per hour for eight hours of the day and the other street to average at least 200 vehicles per hour for the same eight hours. The intersection East Roy Street and Belmont Avenue East does not meet this standard. SDOT does not plan to modify this location at this time.
Again, thank you for sharing your concerns. SDOT wants our street system to operate safely and efficiently for all users.”