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Seattle Transit Blog doesn’t like 12th Ave streetcar route

As Tuesday night’s community meeting to discuss possible routes for the new streetcar approaches, here’s what we know about 12th Ave’s role in the plans:

Here’s one more thing. The rapid transportation geeks at Seattle Transit Blog say the 12th Ave route alternative is the worst of the bunch:

The first and most fundamental problem with the 12th Ave alignment is the couplet.


While the couplet increases total coverage of the streetcar, it dramatically reduces the quality of that coverage. By separating the northbound and southbound travel by 3 blocks, the area that is close to both a northbound and southbound station is reduced significantly.

 

To prove their point, STB created the map graphic linked on this post which illustrates the ‘walk shed’ of the 12th Ave route — basically, what areas would be within walking distance of the streetcar line. After examining the maps, we’ll take STB’s word for it. The site also argues that zoning for future development makes a route on Boren a better option and that the only institution that would benefit from the 12th Ave route would be Seattle University.

STB also makes a point that even we can see in the fancy maps — a 12th Ave route would serve only the edges of First Hill well. What we don’t know is how important that factor will be in the city’s process to determine the final route.

We’ll be bringing you more on the proposed alternatives in the coming days including updated arguments for 12th Ave and information about who on the Hill is backing which route.

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uhura
uhura
15 years ago

My takeaway from Josh Mahar’s argument for 12th Ave streetcar route is essentially “a streetcar is so much prettier and will bring life to the neighborhood” and it’s useless for it to be on Broadway. What I’d like to know is how this will effect parking in the area. 12th Ave is one of the few places with free street parking, without meters, and not Zone 4. There are lots of residents and businesses along this street that rely on the availability of parking, not to mention visitors and employees of said residents and businesses.

Adam Parast
Adam Parast
15 years ago

Thanks for the repost. I know CHS has been pulling for the 12th Ave idea for a while and I want to make it clear that I certainly can see why people want the streetcar on 12th. Over the last 2 years or so 12th and Pike/Pine/Madison has really taken off. I think that myself and many see a lot of The Pearl in this new vibrant area. A streetcar down 12th fits perfectly with the metal image we have.

With that said I think I explained clearly why we think the 12th Ave alignment is a bad idea.

UPDATE: Let me rephrase that. Building streetcars on “main” streets to encourage development is good, but in this situation Boren or Broadway are much better alternatives. If people want to get additional funds to build a 12th Ave streetcar I’m all for it.

LeeSeattle
LeeSeattle
15 years ago

The 12th Avenue alignment is a poor allocation of scarce transportation resources. The Broadway alignment will effectively serve BOTH Seattle U and the hospitals. The 12th Ave alignment will not effectively serve the major employment centers on First Hill. If we are serious about combating global warming, we need to put infrastructure where it makes sense – and that means where there is demand for service.

wes kirkman
wes kirkman
15 years ago

you are wrong lee! ;)

Seriously though, 12th avenue is a great location for the streetcar. While Pike/Pine is in it’s heyday, 12th ave is the up and coming neighborhood of Cap Hill and the CD.

I get your point of serving these major employment centers…but, in my humble opinion, hospitals are too willing to dole out free parking to every one and their momma. A streetcar is not going to change anyone’s opinion.

Besides, unless this comes with some serious retrofit to Boren and Broadway south of Pike, these four lane streets are awful places to put a streetcar which is suppose to be in walking utopias.

CapHillMax
CapHillMax
15 years ago

Boren is an awful choice for a route through First Hill. Trying to thread a streetcar through the “parking lot” nightmare that is Boren & Madison is just silly and would destroy any reliability the system would purport to offer.

The streetcar needs to run either exclusively on Broadway, or with a couplet down 12th.

Alan
Alan
15 years ago

While I personally like the 12th ave route — it brings half the street car 3 blocks closer to my house — the Broadway line is fine.

That Boren route, however seems like a nightmare just waiting to happen. I can’t believe anyone would think adding anything to Madison was a good idea. Yuck. Yuck. Yuck.

archie
archie
15 years ago

As Boren & Madison are a big mess, I take that as another reason it desperately needs a streetcar. This is a chance to transform those messy streets.

Jay
Jay
15 years ago

I understand the desire to have a streetcar on 12th, it’s a great developing neighborhood, but the streetcar is supposed to serve First Hill, not the Central District. Don’t steal the streetcar from the neighborhood it was promised to. If a strong case can be made for a streetcar on 12th, then the neighborhood should be able to convince the city to build one there in addition to the First Hill Streetcar.

Mike with curls
Mike with curls
15 years ago

It would appear First Hill is flexing muscle. What is the annual budget of Swedish and Fred H. combined? Add in a couple more biggies from over there.

All that cash = muscle.

But love the good discussion. Nice.

Mike

CapHillMax
CapHillMax
15 years ago

@archie. The streetcar won’t relieve congestion. It’s ludicrous to think that it would. The streetcar, like light rail, will provide an alternative to driving. However, putting a streetcar on Boren & Madison will do one thing: get it stuck in 5 mph rush hour traffic along with all of the cars, making it extraordinarily unreliable for people who use it. The STB folks are in denial about that element of the equation.

For the record, I am a rabid supporter of both light rail and streetcars, we just need to be smart about it.

Uncle Vinny
15 years ago

…and mentioned that to switch away from First Hill would be breaking a promise that Sound Transit made to that neighborhood after their light rail stop got cut.

Here’s the link: http://publicola.net/?p=20620