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posted
07/14/08 05:46 PM
Our Neighborhood isn't a Cutting Garden
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bummer
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I live pretty close to you and I've had the same problem. My landlord doesn't do much with the garden areas in our building. Now, I'm not much of a gardener, but I try the best I can to dress up the patch of dirt outside my window. I purchased a bunch of those flowers from outside of Walgreen's and planted them. It was not cheap and I am not rich. I did it to be nice. Within two days, the flowers that had not been picked, had been stepped on by people trying to get to our small garden hose that hangs on the wall, a hose I had to replace because people were leaving the longe rone stretched across the sidewalk almost every day, again, at my own expense! Or it gets stomped by people letting their dogs go to the bathroom and stomp all over the garden. I caught a women letting her dog use my garden twice! She just pretended I wasn't talking to her when I asked her to please not let her dog trample all over the area I was trying to grow something. She just did that eye contact avoiding thing that people tend to do on the hill when they know they are being asshats. I grew a couple perfect sunflowers from seeds two summers ago, and when they first bloomed and were super cute, someone strolled by and plucked them up in less than 48 hours after they opened all the way. The first Saturday night when the bars were hopping, they were gone. At this point I've given up. As long as they keep opening bars on 15th, we are going to have lame drunken 20-somethings picking flowers thinking they are being "rebellious free spirits" when in fact they are just being selfish jerks. |
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Comment by
dreamingviola
July 14, 2008
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Indeed
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| A woman was yanking out big clumps of the lavender that grows by the entrance to my apartment's garage the other afternoon. I pulled up on my bicycle and before I even put my key in the door to unlock it, she had hightailed it down the street, likely embarrassed. This was in broad daylight too. | |
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Comment by
Wesa
July 14, 2008
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are they picking flowers from public or private land?
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if it's a traffic circle it's public property and you shouldn't pretend to have any rights over it. much that same way if you left a $10 bill on the sidewalk; in 5 minutes it'll be gone. while i understand you want to be able to enjoy the flowers, when something is available to the public, the public usually will take what they want and you really have no right to complain. now, if they are coming up into your yard; that's private property and that's not cool. but to call picking flowers from a public spot stealing is a bit of a reach and sounds like you may have too much free time on your hands. |
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Comment by
jason
July 14, 2008
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WRONG whether public or private
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Jason, you have GOT to be kidding! People plant and maintain the traffic circles as a gift to the entire neighborhood, not for private use, and it's incredibly selfish to pick flowers from them. You sound like a typical 20-something who has no connection to or respect for the physical attributes of Capitol Hill. Often, this obnoxious behavior is tolerated, and people "look the other way." So, thanks, Gay Curmudgeon, for intervening and calling those people out on what they were doing. If more concerned citizens would do this, perhaps the problem would decrease. By the way, it is highly unlikely that they didn't know that ordinary citizens maintain the circles. Even if the City did this, that would not rationalize stealing from them...would it be OK to take flowers/plants from Volunteer Park? I live near the P-Patch on E. Thomas St...and not only to non-gardeners pick flowers there, they also take fruits and vegetables that the gardeners have lovingly tended. Unbelieveable! |
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Comment by
Bob
July 15, 2008
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agreed
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we live on a high-traffic corner on top of capitol hill and often have to chase away people cutting our lilac bushes (they look like deer have been feeding at them once they start blooming - there are no blooms within 8 feet of the sidewalk). we have a large front lawn with a bench and a garden full of flowers that people tend to wander into and pick. i once had to chase an 8 year-old kid out of the garden who was ripping up the bulbs. his mom wandered around the corner a minute or two later and had the gall to yell at me for suggesting her kid shouldn't be ripping up other peoples' gardens on private property. barely a day goes by where some random people don't decide to sit down on our bench or lawn and leave trash or cigarette butts behind (i got a free lighter yesterday that was left behind from whoever was blowing smoke in our windows - thanks guys!). traffic circles aside, my partner and i have been wondering why people think it's just "ok" to chill out on someone else's lawn - we're in a similar spot as other posters where we want to find out where these people live and go pick their flowers and have a picnic on their lawn (and leave the mess and damage for them to clean up). there are certainly worse problems. i'd rather people sitting on the lawn having a picnic than climbing in my window and stealing my stuff - but still, it's just really odd and entitled behavior. people say "oh, it's just a couple flowers" - yeah, but a lot of people (>60/hour) walk by, and after awhile there's not much left for the people who own the property, who plant, water and tend the garden, to enjoy. that's just not right... |
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Comment by
kinkos
July 15, 2008
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Difference between legality and being considerate
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I'm guessing that what people are doing when they pick flowers from the traffic circles is not, per se, illegal. It is "rude" and "inconsiderate". And anyone out there with scissors has some pretty clear intent. FYI, I'm pretty sure the taking the flowers from private property is probably illegal. Of course, the people (not you) around Cap Hill that let their plants grow well over the sidewalk could use some guerrilla plant-removal since the city seems unwilling to do anything about it. Can barely walk on the sidewalks in some places. At any rate, I certainly feel bad whenever I see a messed up traffic circle, or food taken from a garden in a P-Patch, or when someone has left dog poop on someone else's lawn. Perhaps a little signage would discourage the casual thieves? I'm not sure how well that works with the P-Patch, but it's a low-cost/low-effort idea. I'm honestly more concerned with things like the increase in graffiti, break-ins and general crime as of late. |
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Comment by
jcricket
July 15, 2008
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Urban Foraging
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Bob, I'm going to have to side with Jason on this one, at least legally. Anything that extends outside of your property is city ground. That means that if you're growing pears and strawberries on the median between the sidewalk and the street, anybody has a right to take your fruit. It may be unethical, but it's most certainly legal. For example, there is a website called Urban Edibles which tracks these sorts of public/private food sources in the Portland area. When I lived there I would do some foraging. Still, I would definitely make sure to not intrude on private land, I would do my best to ask before picking, and I'd never trample over anything. |
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Comment by
SirLearnsalot
July 15, 2008
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RE: Urban Foraging
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| Ummm, you sure? I've been told any tree planted in the planting strip belongs to the owner of the lot. | |
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Comment by
Edward Hoopoe
July 18, 2008
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uhh
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just put up a little sign saying "please leave these flowers be for all to enjoy" I think that might do the trick. |
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Comment by
jesse
July 15, 2008
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Signs...
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| I was thinking more of, "You are being blogged about, signed, the gay curmudgeon" :-) | |
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Comment by
jcricket
July 15, 2008
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Siding with Jason on this
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| I've got to go with Jason on this too. It's wonderful that people voluntarily plant and care for these little garden patches. It seems that people are genuinely unaware that traffic circle gardens are maintained by neighbors and not the city. So rather than leaving little notes, or mailing seeds and telling people to "grow their own," next time you see someone taking flowers from the circle, go out, introduce yourself, explain to them that it's a neighborhood garden and invite them to participate. | |
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Comment by
greyh
July 15, 2008
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a sign?
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| You're putting faith in the ability of a piece of paper to inspire guilt in these people. If the commenters telling them to please stop doesn't do it, what good would a sign do? Especially if nobody is around to see... | |
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Comment by
raincitysun
July 15, 2008
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why is it ok if it is city property?
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| I don't think it matters whether it is city property or private property - it's still not legal to take something that isn't yours. You can't cut down a tree in a city park or in the parking strip for that matter - cutting flowers is just a matter of scale. And what if someone picked all the flowers in Volunteer Park? That's public space too. It really irks me that people think they can pick flowers that are obviously planted and cared for. | |
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Comment by
k
July 15, 2008
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i think it depends on their intention.
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i've seen people grab a flower from a traffic circle and/or somebody's yard and then hand it to their partner. i thought it was a sweet gesture. i live at 988 21st ave, and if anyone wants to take one of our flowers to give somebody out of love, i have no issue with it. to me if you are doing something for the public, it's for the public. regardless of whether the public wants to look at it, take it home, sing to it, sit on it, run around and around it square dancing, etc. if you're doing something and you only want people to use it for one purpose, that isn't for the public. and no, in case you're wondering, i don't take flowers out of traffic circles ;) |
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Comment by
kim
July 15, 2008
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How much selfishness can be justified by loving intentions?
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Kim, I know this is a bit of a jump to make, but how would you feel about someone "picking" a swing, bench, sculpture, or tree out of a park to take it home and give it to someone, out of love? After all, if we tried to reserve that thing for one purpose, it wasn't really public, right? And the artwork that is displayed on the empty Jack in the Box building at Broadway & Denny -- were the people who helped themselves to a few pieces by cutting them off and taking them away acting appropriately if they did so out of love? How do you feel about someone coming upon a public space, finding something that is by your definition not public, but only (extrapolating here) semi-public, since it was being used only for several purposes (beautification, producing seeds to grow next season's flowers, reducing erosion, feeding bees and hummingbirds, whatever) then cutting and taking that thing away, thereby making it absolutely non-public? Isn't that rather selfish, regardless of the love-struck vandal's intent? I suppose it's just one flower, and there are plenty more of them. |
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Comment by
Phil M
July 17, 2008
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Gotta' say
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| Cheap bastards. | |
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Comment by
dawggy
July 15, 2008
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oh man
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some random people just decided to have an impromptu picnic and game of frisbee over our garden. i went out and asked them if they lived here and they said no, so i let them know this is private property. they told me they thought the yard (which is obviously a yard unless you're totally stupid) was a "community center". nope. let it go unsaid that the attitude that the kids displayed was less than polite. i'm sure their parents would appreciate it if i showed up to their house and started grilling on their lawn... re: signs above - i've seen signs turn more into an invitation for vandalism and inspiration for the behavior they're designed to prevent. the world is full of stupid and rude people, it seems. |
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Comment by
kinkos
July 15, 2008
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my response...
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uh, bob, you don't know me and unless you've met me, don't assume to know who i am as for one i'm not in my 20s, two i own property on capitol hill and three i have respect for other people's private property. but we're not talking private property, we're talking a traffic circle that is freely available to the public and is quite literally, public land. the fact that this topic is even on this blog and has gotten 14 posts shows the pettiness of SOME people in this neighborhood. myself, i'm a little more concerned about the drug deals that happen on the sidewalks or the homeless people that puke on the street, shit themselves and then fall asleep in the alley outside my place, awaiting a wake-up call from me in the morning as i step over them on my way to work. picking flowers in an area that is on public land? not even on my lists of concerns. and to your question of it being okay to take flowers from volunteer park, yes, it is. it's a public park and a flower is growing out in the open. and i guess with that question you are implying that you've NEVER been in a public park and picked a flower (no matter how small), picked a leaf, a blade of grass or picked up a shiny pebble? besides, i like to think of the issue this way, if i went to volunteer park, spent my money on rose bushes, my time on planting them, watering them and caring for them but they were in the middle of the park where anyone had access to them then i have no reason to complain if people pick the flowers. you want people to not pick flowers, plant them in your yard or put them behind glass. |
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Comment by
jason
July 15, 2008
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RE: my response...
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| Not every problem/concern has to be on a monumental scale such as drug dealing. You have every right to be concerned with the "big" things out there, just as we have every right to be concerned about the "little" things. It is rude to judge the rest of us for having a few small concerns about our neighborhood. | |
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Comment by
Wesa
July 17, 2008
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Pick 'em if you dare..
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Actually, Jason, it is illegal to pick flowers in Volunteer Park. From Seattle Municipal Code 18.12.070 "B. It is unlawful for any person except a duly authorized Department of Parks and Recreation or other City employee in the performance of his or her duties, or other person duly authorized pursuant to law, to remove, destroy, mutilate or deface any structure, lawn, monument, statue, vase, fountain, wall, fence, railing, vehicle, bench, shrub, tree, geological formation, plant, flower, lighting system, sprinkling system, gate, barricade or lock or other property lawfully in any park, or to remove sand, soil, or sod in any park." |
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Comment by
Cuckoo
July 15, 2008
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circle circle
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| Is there any registration, formal or not, to care for a traffic circle. Someone obviously works on the one on my street, but I've never seen them. I want to help out, but don't want to piss off someone who spent years caring for this lovely spot. | |
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Comment by
ROAG
July 15, 2008
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RE: circle circle
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| Lots of good info about traffic circles -- and traffic circle gardening -- in this fine post by neighbor Adam: Much ado about traffic circles | |
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Comment by
jseattle
July 16, 2008
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re: circle circle
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Yes, there is a formal registration with Seattle's DOT for being a street-side gardener who maintains traffic circles. You can check with them to see who is in charge of your circle and how to contact them. Linden Mead is the coordinator for traffic circle volunteers and can be emailed at: Linden.Mead@seattle.gov Tending traffic circles can be both frustrating & rewarding. Challenges include random idiots helping themselves to plant material (sometimes including the whole plant) - to having trees/shrubs/plants run over by large trucks and drunk drivers. Which by the way is a crime, and they or their insurance will have to provide the cost for replacing damaged material. That's of course if they are caught. The city does not provide funds for replacing damaged plant material. On the plus side it can be a source of community pride. I get a small amount of help from my neighbors in tending the circle. I also receive many compliments, encouragement and thanks for the work I do on it. I don't do it for myself alone- I do it as community service- it's about caring for a corner of the city that I call home. It's about creating a garden for all to enjoy in its place. If you take the flowers, then they are not there for the rest of the neighbors to enjoy - and that's being selfish. (I don't care what your intention is...nothing says "I love you" quite like stolen goods.) Tending the circle also means that I remove trash (malt liquor bottles) and graffiti from the reflector sign which gets tagged periodically. Landscaping in traffic circles is only one option- the city will have a circle PAVED OVER if no one is willing to tend a garden in one. So please don't make it more frustrating for the person (who is likely the only person) in your neighborhood who is willing to spend their time, energy & money to make your neighborhood a little nicer to live in. |
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Comment by
E
July 16, 2008
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RE: re: circle circle
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| This is the best comment yet. | |
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Comment by
Wesa
July 17, 2008
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